The Catholic Defender: Go John

Posted by John Benko - August 31st, 2013

Please tune in for the debate between John Benko and Brenda Johnson on the doctrine Sola Scriptura.  This will take place this October 3rd at 7:00 Eastern, 6:00 Central, 5:00 Mountain, 4:00 West Coast.  Marked to be an event of the year.  (646) 595-2071 is the call in number. The debates can be heard live on our BlogtalkRadio show.

 “Beliefs have the power to create and the power to destroy. Human beings have the awesome ability to take any experience of their lives and create a meaning that disempowers them or one that can literally save their lives.” - Tony Robbins

“Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.”

 
  Isaiah 41:10
‘Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, surely I will help you, Surely I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.’

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.


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The Catholic Defender Responds to Mr. Duckworth

Posted by John Benko - August 6th, 2013

There was an open debate today between Deepertruth’s John Benko and Matt Duckworth on the question of Sola Fide and it did not take long before both sides were critical of the other.

Obviously, John Benko was winning the issue on point while Mr. Duckworth began to attack the person.

This would continue until about 12:30 in the morning.  Lets just take a look at the real argument of Mr. Duckworth.

Duckworth, “Your primary problem, John, is a complete inability to sort out what is law and what is gospel, and what is works and what is grace. Roman Catholics have to throw them all in a blender in order to come out with their theology on the other side, and still sound like they have a modicum of Biblical accuracy.” 

The Catholic Church does not have to throw works and grace  and the law in a blender, not at all. 
 

GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION
I. JUSTIFICATION
1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35

1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37

1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. “Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39
 
1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God’s merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.
1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or “justice”) here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.
1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.42

1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God’s love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that “the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth,” because “heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away.”43He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the “inner man,44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:

Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.45

The works of the Law gets you really nowhere, that is the Old Law, but we are given into another law.  The law of grace.  This includes the works that are appointed to the Christian to fulfill from the foundation of the world (Ephesians 2:10).

Duckworth “There will more to follow, as it’s going to take some time to untangle your bird’s nest of law and gospel, and sort things out a bit when I hopefully get some time later today.

I still retain the floor.

 I’m going to skip several pages of material to the bottom because there is one more essential issue I wanted to address. I hesitate to address it because it is off topic, the very thing I am trying to discourage, but I can’t resist.

John wrote:
[[Mat
thew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many
will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons
in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them,]]

The primary question here is, what does Christ mean by fruit? The first implication is you will know them by their works.”

IV. CHRISTIAN HOLINESS
 
2012 “We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him . . . For those whom he fore knew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.”64
2013 “All Christians in any state or walk of life are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity.”65 All are called to holiness: “Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”66

In order to reach this perfection the faithful should use the strength dealt out to them by Christ’s gift, so that . . . doing the will of the Father in everything, they may wholeheartedly devote themselves to the glory of God and to the service of their neighbor. Thus the holiness of the People of God will grow in fruitful abundance, as is clearly shown in the history of the Church through the lives of so many saints.67

2014 Spiritual progress tends toward ever more intimate union with Christ. This union is called “mystical” because it participates in the mystery of Christ through the sacraments – “the holy mysteries” – and, in him, in the mystery of the Holy Trinity. God calls us all to this intimate union with him, even if the special graces or extraordinary signs of this mystical life are granted only to some for the sake of manifesting the gratuitous gift given to all.
2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle.68 Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes:

He who climbs never stops going from beginning to beginning, through beginnings that have no end. He never stops desiring what he already knows.69

2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance and the recompense of God their Father for the good works accomplished with his grace in communion with Jesus.70 Keeping the same rule of life, believers share the “blessed hope” of those whom the divine mercy gathers into the “holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”71
 
IN BRIEF
2017 The grace of the Holy Spirit confers upon us the righteousness of God. Uniting us by faith and Baptism to the Passion and Resurrection of Christ, the Spirit makes us sharers in his life.
2018 Like conversion, justification has two aspects. Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, and so accepts forgiveness and righteousness from on high.
2019 Justification includes the remission of sins, sanctification, and the renewal of the inner man.
2020 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God’s mercy.

2021 Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons. It introduces us into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life.
2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man. Grace responds to the deepest yearnings of human freedom, calls freedom to cooperate with it, and perfects freedom.
2023 Sanctifying grace is the gratuitous gift of his life that God makes to us; it is infused by the Holy Spirit into the soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it.
2024 Sanctifying grace makes us “pleasing to God.” Charisms, special graces of the Holy Spirit, are oriented to sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. God also acts through many actual graces, to be distinguished from habitual grace which is permanent in us.
2025 We can have merit in God’s sight only because of God’s free plan to associate man with the work of his grace. Merit is to be ascribed in the first place to the grace of God, and secondly to man’s collaboration. Man’s merit is due to God.
2026 The grace of the Holy Spirit can confer true merit on us, by virtue of our adoptive filiation, and in accordance with God’s gratuitous justice. Charity is the principal source of merit in us before God.
2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.

2028 “All Christians . . . are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity” (LG 40 § 2). “Christian perfection has but one limit, that of having none” (St. Gregory of Nyssa, De vita Mos.:PG 44, 300D).
2029 “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me” (Mt 16:24).

Mr. Duckworth, I see nothing here that says anything about throwing “ throw them all in a blender in order to come out with their theology on the other side”.
I admit that this might be a bit much for you to digest,  but it is important to note that the Catholic Church is well founded on it’s doctrines.  Your going to have to do far more than simply make false accusations.

Duckworth If this is true, than Mormons are not false teachers, since they are actually very efficient at charity, caring for the poor, and promoting traditional family values as well as a strong moral fabric in society. Not to mention, verses 21-23
are actually attributing mighty works in Christ’s name to those who are being rejected by Christ.

III. MERIT

You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.59

2006 The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.
2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.
2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining “the promised inheritance of eternal life.”60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 “Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts.”62
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit be
fore God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.

After earth’s exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone. . . . In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself.63

Doing good in and of itself gets you no where, however, if your following the truth of God and his principles, then doing good works is very important.  You will be held accountable for how you live your life.  We are called to be faithful.  Good works is important in picking up our cross and following him.  To taking care of the widows and orphans is a responsibility.

Duckworth  In a great sense of irony, I actually believe this to be a condemnation of Roman Catholic teaching… in that Christ is condemning those who called on His name and point to their own works as their justification on the last day. It is a condemnation of Mormons too, and every other religion in the world that bases salvation on works done (which is the worldly religion).

Actually, this warning from Jesus in verse 22-23 points to works made by those who were false prophets to include those disciples who perform works of healing and exorcism, but live evil lives. We see this in Deuteronomy18:18-20, “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their kinsmen, and will put my words into his mouth; he shall tell them all that I command him.  If any man will not listen to my words which he speaks in my name, I myself will make him answer for it.  But if a prophet presumes to speak in my name an oracle that I have not commanded him to speak, or speaks in the name of other gods, he shall die”.

Mormans are not a good representative group because any group that proclaims something contrary to the Catholic teaching place themselves in this situation.

Duckworth So that brings us back to the question, what is fruit? What is the context? The context is false prophets… the fruits are their teachings! You will know them by their teaching.

I can accept teaching here, no question about that, but works are also indicated by the evil they do.  

It is very interesting how people attempt to minimize the works of God in our lives.  

We shall know them by their fruits.  Matt, this is how I can know your teaching is false and full of misrepresentations.

What are those works that we are to strive?  

The Corporal Works of Mercy

  • Feed the hungry
  • Give drink to the thirsty
  • Clothe the naked
  • Shelter the homeless
  • Visit the sick
  • Visit the imprisoned
  • Bury the dead

The Spiritual Works of Mercy

  • Admonish the sinner
  • Instruct the ignorant (This and the next work are extremely pertinent categories today, when so many people are confused by what the Church teaches on contraception, abortion, homosexuality, etc.)
  • Counsel the doubtful
  • Comfort the sorrowful
  • Bear wrongs patiently
  • Forgive all injuries
  • Pray for the living and the dead

These are things that are important for the believer.  This is not the same as the works of the law was in the Old Testament.  We are to be that grace the Lord works in our lives by doing his will.

Duckworth A right handling of God’s Word, of law and gospel, will result in the hearers coming to a genuine repentance and trusting faith in Christ alone for salvation, which is the will of the Father in heaven (v.21)

It is interesting that you say “A right handling of God’s Word“, you want to make yourself the arbiter  of God’s word?  This was given to the Catholic Church by Jesus himself so anyone who proclaims to be a disciple who has no tie to the apostolic Church is self deceived.  The true Gospel of Jesus Christ has to be 2,000 years ago, it cannot be formulated in 1917 or any other man made date.  Then you fall right into (Deuteronomy 18:20, Matthew 7:22-23) placing yourself as a false prophet.

You also speak of the law as to say rightly handling God’s law.   “Know this, my brethren. Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger, for the anger of man does not work the righteousness of God. Therefore put away all filthiness and rank growth of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who observes his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself and goes away and at once forgets what he looks like. But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing” (James 1:19-25).

The Catholic Faith has been the safeguard of the Word of God from the beginning.  The law of Grace is in effect until the Lord does return and everyone will be held accountable to their works.

Duckworth “A wrongful handling of God’s Word, and a confusion of law and gospel, will result in a different “fruit”; one where the hearers are confident in their own works for salvation, and who are actually deceived into believing they just need to follow Christ “a little better”, or be “obedient enough” to enter heaven. The fruits of this teaching are self righteousness, and the trusting of one’s own works for salvation, as is evidenced in v. 21-23″

On this point, I have no quarrel, I would simply say that you are looking at your own mirror when you direct that erroneously at others.  Grace, faith, and good works together strengthen a rope that will not break.  When you try to unravel the obvious truth behind this rope, you simply weaken yourself and are subject to heresy.

Duckworth “Alright, that’s all for now. I await your response, and would appreciate some focus, instead of trying to lead the conversation down 100 different rabbit trails. Salvation SOLA FIDE is the topic of discussion.”

It is very interesting to me to see you say this because your side of the line are masters of using the scatter-gun  technique? If we could really get you to stay focused on a subject that would be great.  I wish we could have had you act this way today as opposed to your name-calling, threats, and insults.  That was your focus today.   

The Late John Gerstner was a Professor of Church History at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary and Knox Theological Seminary once said, “If Protestants were wrong on Sola Fide–and the Catholic Church was right that Justification is by faith and works, I’d be on my knees tomorrow morning outside of the Vatican doing penance”.

According to Luther and Calvin this was the article on which the Church stood or fell, Sola Fide was the material principle of the Reformation.
 
Consider 1 Corinthians 13:2, “If I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” St. Paul is essentially saying that if you have no love, your faith is in vain.

 This is in total agreement with James 2:14. St James asked the question, “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works. Can his faith save him?”

Duckworth  “We can go ahead and dispense with the insults, condescending remarks, and mad proclamations of victory over sola fide. I’ve already heard them, have already yawned as a result, and am only interested in the content of you addressing my arguments.”

Well, unfortunately, this is the best you can do? No wonder you gracefully bowed out of the debate? That again is your right.  It’s a shame that you were not able to hold to your own principles.  You can yawn all you want to, Jesus is not yawning, this is no game to him. 

 Duckworth  “I would like to see if anyone was following along or all that work was for naught, so after this is finalized, I would ask Robert to open the thread up for discussion.
Unfortunately, there is probably something like 50,000 + characters of text, that I expect most people, sadly, will not read through. To that end, I would like to ask John F Benko to delete some of the unnecessary banter in the middle and I will delete mine. This cleans the thread up a little for people to hopefully read.”

This is all the more why the forum is not ideal for debate.  There are way too many opportunities for people to get misrepresented, sort through the wrestling of the volume of information piling up, it takes the responder a long time to go through it.  Unfortunately, at the end of the day, you were not really interested in debate.  You wanted to go personal.  Personally, I would want my opponent to give their best to the table.  I want those following the debate to be able to get both points of view.  You made this virtually impossible with your personal insults.

Matt Duckworth, I dedicate this song to you. (Editors note-upon learning of Sylvester Stallone’s return to his Catholic Faith, Praise the Lord for the return of the prodigals)

A response from Matt Duckworth:

If you want forgiveness for ripping my words out of context and using them to falsely characterize me on your web site, than I forgive you for that. I mean that too, I truly don’t hold a grudge. I accept that as part of the hazards and risk of online debating with bloggers. Most people would be quite angry with that but I am not.

There are not many people who follow me, and I am not popular online. I am just another anonymous guy who debates with opposing viewpoints in my SPARE TIME.

If what you say is true, about this “going viral” than my anger has truly turned into amusement. Is there that many people with that much spare time on their hands?

Matt, I took your words and tried to correctly respond to them, I will admit that blogging a debate can be easy to misinterpret a meaning so for that, I can easily say that I’m sorry if I missed your point.

The past couple of days has shown how things can go south very quickly and so it is good to have the opportunity to clarify it and bring it into perspective.

People love a fight, Ali vs Fraiser, Hulk Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior, the Catholic Defender vs Matt Duckworth.  These things bring excitement out of an ordinary day.

The power of the internet is far reaching that can be used for good or evil.  Here at Deepertruth, we are dedicated to serving Jesus and His Catholic Church which is our foundation.  To “Consecrate yourself to God the Father through the Son, Christ Jesus.”

I do want to invite you on a show with me in the future that we can talk this over.  It doesn’t have to be a debate, Catholic vs Protestant or anything like that, just two guys getting together about the past couple of days to show respect.  Matt, the ball is back in your court.


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The Catholic Defender: Tonights Peanut Gallery During Show

Posted by John Benko - June 12th, 2013

During the show tonight, here is what was happening at the peanut gallery.
Jackie Susanne I notice they dont read any scripture but only praise pope and cardinal history.
John W Henry Amen Jackie
Jackie Susanne John W. Henry can you believe this? theyre defending theyre graven images because the Arc had images of angels. sigh
John W Henry Unbelievable
Jackie Susanne Now they say Christians need to think OUTSIDE of the box. How about think in terms of SCRIPTURE ONLY! man!
Walter Coslovi Keep preaching brother John,I came out of the RCC because I saw what it was, pagan in every thing. It was set up in Rome instead of converting the pagans it joined them.

Jackie Susanne Darn, gotta p/u my husband at the train. John J Farina Ross & Margie are blind & I feel sorry for them. God bless you!

John W Henry Mocking the 2nd coming …Mocking the rapture …God help them

Sharon Dagenais Mocking judgement.. THEY are judging
Sharon Dagenais oh wow.. who is prosituting? wow

John W Henry John being warned about Judgment Day …these people are so messed up and spiritually blind
John W Henry Hi Sharon …
John W Henry Chick tracts are true

Sharon Dagenais Hi John…. they use wafers..

John W Henry Mocking Calvary Chapel …OY Vey
John W Henry John isn’t saved …oh my gosh
John W Henry Yeppers Sharon …the death cookie

Sharon Dagenais catholics are not saved.. they are NEVER asked about salvation
Sharon Dagenais Only about how much they can pay for a mass card

John W Henry mocking the KJV

John W Henry Sharon is signed in …You go Girl
John W Henry 5 pople there and at least 3 of us are friends of johns (LOL)

Sharon Dagenais i want to blast them Hubby is x catholic is a mess

John W Henry They are ….It is Finished
John W Henry me too Sharon …if we do they’ll block us …don’t know what to do

Sharon Dagenais yeah

John W Henry They said there were 32 popes by 311 AD …popery didn’t even start until the 4th century

Sharon Dagenais right
Sharon Dagenais a bad cult

John W Henry Liars
John W Henry so deceived

Sharon Dagenais they are the ones judging

John W Henry doctrine of demons

Sharon Dagenais yes

John W Henry Yeppers …we tell them the Truth
John W Henry no prayer for John yet …guess he won’t get out of purgatory for free
John W Henry OUCH …what did she call us?
John W Henry toilet paper crew

Sharon Dagenais yes… i know catholics who would be applaud by this

John W Henry Pathetic, disgusting and Wretched …do unto others?

Sharon Dagenais they are awful

John W Henry True That Sharon

Sharon Dagenais WOW

John W Henry No …they just kill 50 million people

Sharon Dagenais yep
John W Henrand those priests are not even saved

Sharon Dagenais this is sad.. such terible talk against Jesus.

John W Henry arrogant …little brats ….only people in room are John’s friends (LOL)
John W Henry notice how Mary was left out of conversation tonight

Sharon Dagenais lol they are so confused

John W Henry It is Sharon …horrible
John W Henry She is Arrogant

Sharon Dagenais the catholic church was formed from the mason(brick worker) who hid in caves tunnels
Sharon Dagenais hence forth the masonic
Sharon Dagenais Jesus did not form the Caatholic church

John W Henry Jesus, James, Jude and Peter all called out false teachers

Sharon Dagenais yes

John W Henry and the journey ends with purgatory …and they will never get out

Sharon Dagenais AMEN

John W Henry Heck no Sharon …there were no catholics
John W Henry Amen Sharon …much freemasonry in church of rome. Jesuits are evil

Sharon Dagenais yep

John W Henry These two are so hateful


Sharon Dagenais very.. UNHOLY

John W Henry going to a sinner to get sins forgiven
John W Henry ggo grief ….Apostacy!

Sharon Dagenais sad

John W Henry Thank God for Martin Luther

Sharon Dagenais AMEN

John W Henry They were not even considerate enogh to welcome you into the room Sharon. They probably know You’re ANATHEMA (LOL)
John W Henry Oy Vey

Sharon Dagenais they are too self inguldge

John W Henry This is so awful ..makes me cringe

Sharon Dagenais upsettin my stomach

John W Henry Wish Gina was hearing this (LOL)

John W Henry Amen Sharon …no prayers for John (L

Add caption

Sharon Dagenais she would get booted fast

John W Henry how about Ignatius Loyala and pope innocent …..who started the Inquisition

John W Henry LOL

Sharon Dagenais flee from idol geeeeeeeeez

John W Henry It has to be so hard to be signed in and stay quiet (LOL)

John W Henry Thank God we are not in the so called true church .We are in the Real True Church

John W Henry pope is a socialist

Sharon Dagenais yes WE ARE the church,, whereever a few gather in His Name
Sharon Dagenais marxist

John W Henry Thank God …it’s almost over
John W Henry Yeppers
John W Henry Giving out rosaries …oy vey

Sharon Dagenais it is all coming to end times .. as Jesus told

John W Henry True That Sharon

John J Farina thank you for the updates…..I chose to treat myself to dinner and a movie instead…..I had a nice night….we will pick this up tomorrow…..thank you so much…..I love you, my siblings in Christ
a few seconds ago · Li


What did we learn from the Peanut Gallery tonight?

1. They love Sola Scriptura.
2. Some of them have left the Catholic Faith.
3. The call sacred objects “Graven Images”.
4. They believe in the Rapture Trap.
5. They love Jack Chick.
6. The call the Eucharist the “death cookie and wafer”.
7. Catholics are not saved?
8. Catholics pay for a Mass card?
9. Popery began in the 4th century.
10. the Catholic Church is a doctrine of demons, a bad cult.
11. The toilet Paper crew
12. Catholics killed 50 million people.
13. Catholics were founded by Masons.
14. Jesuits are evil.

These are the basic points of tonight’s peanut gallery. I want to thank those who participated. Of the 14 points I pulled out, only one of them is basically true. That is number 11, John J. Farina and his group (by their own admission) are openly the Toilet Paper Crew!

Arlene Michelle Hey Johnny…there’s an OLPH church just around the block…come on – meet me tonight and we’ll TP the Mary statue out front! (iI’ve always wanted to do that…as well as knock that Dagon hat off the Poop…).  I respond to this in my article for this show.

The truth of the matter is that the Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ and commissioned by Christ to go to all the nations. 

Just a few thoughts: We did not “praise the pope and cardinal history”.  We asked the first 32 Popes to pray for us as a litany of saints.  That was very unique which I had never seen before.  This was good.  Then I gave some interesting facts concerning some of the foundations in the Church that they instituted.

We shared a lot of scripture, all based from the Old and New Testaments.  Anyone who listens in will be able to see this.  Yes, we do not believe in Sola Scriptura.  This is a man made development which began with Martin Luther.  Only the Catholic Faith has the foundation as it is the “pillar of fire, pillar of truth”.

As Catholics we believe in the Ten Commandments, Martin Luther split the first Commandment into two and that is why they oppose statues.  Protestants mistranslated Exodus 20:4 causing much confusion.  In fact, God instructs Moses to place angels on the Arc of the Covenant in Exodus 25.  In fact we show that God reinforces the use of statues (1 Kings 9:1-3).

The Rapture is a man made development beginning in Holland in the 1830-40s by the Ana-baptist there.  It is based from a dream of a little girl, something that has no bases in the scripture or the apostolic tradition.  In other words, nobody knew about this rapture before then.  it did not nor does it ever exist (Gal 1:6-9).

Jack Chick has already be shown to be based in lies in regards to the Catholic Faith (Christianity Today).  People will believe anything they hear against the Church without much investigation, if any.  All you have to do is Google things anti-Catholic and there you have it.  They simply continue to pass around such myths, misconceptions, forgeries, and outright lies.

The Eucharist is not a “death cookie” but rather “The Bread of Life”.  To deny the Eucharist is to deny Jesus Christ.  Unless you receive the Eucharist, Jesus said, “This is the bread that came down from heaven.  Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

Catholics are saved as they are on journey.  The real issue is that we do not believe in the false man made doctrine, “Once Saved Always Saved”.  This is another development of the Protestant Reformation.  Christians can loose their salvation if they choose to turn away from the Faith.  It is important that they come back (James 5:19-20).

I’ve been a Catholic for more than 50 years, been all over the world, know hundreds of priests, I guess I am in the dark about a “Catholic card”? I’m not sure what this is.  We Catholics do have a calling card, we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses so heaven is right here with us.  Jesus Christ is the Mediator between God and man, this is our calling card.

The Papacy was founded by Jesus Christ, by the 4th century there were 32 Popes who were already in the history of the Church.  St. Sylvester I was the Pope when Constantine came on the scene.  In fact, this was the litany we used in the show.

The Pharisees from Jerusalem said that Jesus “is possessed by Beelzebub (Satan) and By the prince of demons he drives out demons.”  Why should we be surprised that they will say the same thing about Jesus Christ’s Church? Jesus said, “Remember the word I spoke to you, No slave is greater than his master.  If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.” John 15:20

The Catholic Church did not kill 50,000,000 people, the most you can say that were killed by the Inquisition in a 600 year time period is between 5,000-6,000.  It was not the Catholic Authority who put these to death, it was the civil authority who was acting on the laws of the time.  With the fall of Rome the gospel became the foundation of law throughout Europe.  Heresy was against the law.  One thing the anti-Catholics will not tell you, 9 out of every 10 people brought before a Tribunal were acquitted

As a side note, Pope Innocent was not the one who launched the inquisition.  The inquisition began with King Ferdinand II (1231) of Italy who was going after those who were threatening the throne.  What the Pope did was in 1232 created the tribunal to protect those being accused of heresy.  Giving the accused to have a voice, to give them a chance to explain themselves and face their accusers, and to be forgiven.  Were there abuses, sure there were, but over all, it helped save Europe.  What anti-Catholics include in their high numbers is the result of the Black Plague, Starvation, disease.  

The Catholic faith was founded by Christ, the Masons are not part of the Church.  It is a grave sin to be part of the Masons.  Recently, a priest was defrocked after learning of his involvement with the masons.  Jesus was not a mason.

The Jesuits were founded by St. Ignatius of Loyola who did many great things in proclaiming the gospel in the far east and in the New Americas.  They were the strong right arm of the Church for a long time.  They are not evil, they are one of the religious orders in the Church.  Today, there might be problems as some of them have rooted themselves in “liberation theology” in South America.  They were chastised by Pope John Paul II when he was there.  

Again, these are small nuggets, I want to thank the peanut gallery for their participation. 

Here is the show in case you missed it.  

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/deeper-truth/2013/06/11/pray-and-fast-for-john-j-farina


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*BEST OF DTB #223* Queen of Heaven debate show notes

Posted by John Benko - October 26th, 2012


These show notes coincide with this blogtalkradio debate

The show notes for this debate can be found at tinyurl.com/97tbsmb

Today’s debate is all about what worship is and what it is not.

Dictionary.com defines worship as follows;

reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

They define Sacred as;

 

devoted or dedicated to a deity or to some religious purpose; consecrated.

2.entitled to veneration or religious respect by association with divinity or divine things; holy.

In British English, the word ‘worship’ covers all definitions of honor, with a distiction between Latria- the honor due God alone and Dulia, that which is due created beings or things. In fact, the British refer to judges as ‘Your worship’.

In American English, this Dulia, or even Hyper-Dulia, is referred to as honor or veneration while Latria is referred to as Worship or Adoration.

 Yes, British English is used in the Catholic Encyclopedia and does say that Mary and Saints are due a level of worship but the same British English says the same about judges. Let’s not be silly here. The British do not consider their judges to be gods. In our discussion tonight, we are defining words like honor, veneration, worship and adoration as American Christians do. Honor and veneration can be due a person- such as a soldier, a place- such as Arlington Cemetery or a thing-such as the Flag, the Cross or a statue or icon. Worship, or Adoration, on the other hand is due only to the Holy Trinity- Father, Son and Holy Spirit and only to it is offered Worship by a Catholic.

Worship, as we define it in American English, starts when the honor given to a person exceeds that which would be appropriate for a created being or thing and the person or thing is recognized and honored, and sacrificed to, as a Divine person-a god or goddess-, rather than a created person or object. This worship cannot be offered by accident or without consent. Therefore, my opponents claim that Catholics worship Mary even if they are unaware of it is completely untenable.

The commandment of God says;

 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
“You shall have no other gods before Me.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

False Worship is about gods. That is, ascribing divinity to someone and submitting to their lordship, is the key and central part of worship. In Exodus 32, we read the sin of the golden calf.

And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

So, as you can see, the first element of worship is an assent to the object as divine. The person or thing has to be recognized as a god or goddess, with an assent of the will, to it holding to the attributes of god- omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, and eternal. This assent cannot be accidental, that is an impossibility.

This aspect of worship is never offered, in a Catholic church, to anyone or anything but God. However, an assent to Divinity is not the completion of worship. James admonishes us in his epistle;

You believe God is one? you do well. Even the demons believe this and they tremble.

The real difference between Protestants and Catholics is not that we worship Mary and they don’t. The real difference is that we worship God and they don’t. The only completegenuine, Christian worship of God- Father, Son and Holy Spirit- occurs in a Catholic church.

 When one examines Scripture judiciously, one sees God quite clearly, with intricate precision, articulate exactly what worship should look like. He also makes it quite clear that the principle elements of that worship are not to ever change. In the books of the law, Genesis to Deuteronomy,  the word ‘perpetual’ appears 40 times, the word ‘everlasting’ 19 times and the word covenant 114 times. Jesus, Himself said that He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). In fact, the word fulfill or fulfilled appears more than 50 times in the 27 books of the New Testament.

Yes, Protestants do claim to assent to the Divinity of the Trinity and, yes, that is a first step towards worship. However, they fail to see the communal nature of genuine worship in contrast to the un-Biblical ‘Christ alone’, ‘Faith alone’, ‘Bible alone’ model of the reformation. Christ established a particular church with a particular authority and a particular liturgy centered around seven very particular sacraments. One Lord-One Faith-One Baptism (Ephesians 4:5)

Nowhere is that more clear than their failure to see that the sacrifice of the Mass is the conduit by which we are connected to Calvary.

The protestant concept of worship is one that is wholly alien to the Bible. From the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation, we see a worship involving a sacrifice, an altar, priests and a liturgy. The idea of a self anointed pastor-centered worship, devoid of an altar and sacrifice is completely absent from Scripture. Catholics understand clearly that Biblical worship is far more than the simple offering of honor, praise and prayer. Of course, we could do an entire debate on what worship really looks like and I will extend that invitation to my opponent now.

In 1 Corinthians 1, chapters 10 and 11, Paul tells us that the bread we eat and the cup we drink is a real participation in the body and blood of Our Lord and to do so unworthily brings judgement. In Hebrews, we are told that we go before an altar. In Revelation Chapter 5, we are told that God has made a Kingdom of Priests to reign on earth. 

Protestants do not understand the New Testament because they fail to understand the Old Testament Blueprint of the New Testament Church. When Jesus instituted the New Covenant in His blood, He did not abolish the ministerial Priesthood and the offering of the sacrifice. On the contrary, He perfected it. He took the imperfect typological and repetitious sacrifice and replaced it with one perfect sacrifice and he replaced that offering with a perfect and perpetual offering just as Malachi 1 prophesies. Jewish worship centered around the Passover. We see, in the Gospels, that the beginning of Jesus ministry coincides with the Passover and the end of His ministry and start of His Passion, likewise, coincides with the Passover. The Passover was not a meaningless gesture. It points to something. Jesus was not just to be the Passover sacrifice but the Passover meal, offered in perpetuity.

 While protestants accuse Catholics of elevating Mary to the level of worship, what is really at work is that protestants have lowered worship to the level of Mary by removing the sacrifice and removing the sense of us all being a part of the communion of saints. In fact, with respect to Mary, they actually accuse us of worshiping Mary as Divine even though we fully recognize her as human! Offering honor and praise and prayer is not worship, assenting to Divinity and offering the sacrifice is worship. Protestants have created a new, un-historical and un-Biblical definition of what worship is and, based on this novel view of worship, accuse Catholics of the worship of Mary. It is not that our Mary is too high, it is that their worship is not high enough.

Catholics do not recognize Mary as having any of the attributes of God. In fact, Catholics acknowledge that Mary should have absolutely no ability whatsoever if not for God acting through her. This makes Mary the same as any other human being who has ever lived.

The entire accusation of Mary-worship is a protestant invention, a feeble attempt to juxtapose Biblical objects of idolatrous worship onto the Catholic Mary. No where is this clearer than in the so-called Queen of Heaven canard.

Protestants often juxtapose the worship of Ishtar, which is being condemned in Jeremiah, with the rightful honor given to the Mother of Our Lord, Mary, who was born centuries later. Their evidence? The title ‘Queen of Heaven’. I will deal with this in depth, in my close.

For now, consider the following;

In Ezra Chapter 7, verse 12, King Artaxerxes of Persia is referred to as the ‘King of Kings’, in Ezekiel 26, the same title is given to Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. Yet, we all know who the true ‘King of Kings’ is, don’t we? The impostor does not invalidate the real deal. The ‘Queen of Heaven’ condemned in Jeremiah 7 and 44 was a false goddess named Ishtar that has absolutely nothing to do with Mary, a human being, who fulfilled the Biblical role of the Queen Mother as seen in 1 Kings 15:13, 2 Kings 10:13, 2 Chronicles 15:16, Jeremiah 13:18, and Jeremiah 29:2.

In the Davidic kingdom, the Queen Mother was the mother of the King. In the case of Solomon, it was Bathsheba  Now, listen to this exchange from 1 Kings, Chapter 2;

12 Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.  13 And Adonijah the son of Haggith came to Bathsheba the mother of Solomon. And she said, Comest thou peaceably?And he said, Peaceably.  14 He said moreover, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And she said, Say on.  15 And he said, Thou knowest that the kingdom was mine, and that all Israel set their faces on me,  that I should reign: howbeit the kingdom is turned about, and is become my brother’s: for it was his from the LORD. 16 And now I ask one petition of thee, deny me not. And she said unto him, Say on.  17 And he said, Speak, I pray thee, unto Solomon the king, (for he will not say thee nay,) that he give  me Abishag the Shunammite to wife.  18 And Bathsheba said, Well; I will speak for thee unto the king.  19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose  up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right hand.  20 Then she said, I desire one small petition of thee; I pray thee, say me not nay. And the king said unto her,  Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay. 

There are several things to note here.  Notice that the word ‘pray’ is used in reference to a petition. That is, after-all what a prayer is. It simply means to ask. Adonijah is not worshiping Bathsheba by offering a prayer of petition, neither is Bathsheba worshiping Solomon by doing the same. Simple prayer is not worship and anyone who claims it is cannot support that notion. The second thing is that Solomon bows to his mother. Again, bowing in honor, is not worship. Falling at one’s feet and prostrating oneself in adoration is not the same as kneeling or bowing out of respect. Third, Solomon seats her on a throne, at his right hand. This, again, is not worship, he is merely honoring her position in the court of the King, as the Queen Mother. Finally, the clincher. The passage opens by saying the following; 12 Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father;

In Luke chapter 1, the Angel Gabriel says exactly the same thing about Jesus;

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne 
of his father David:  

The Jews of Jesus time, as soon as they recognized Jesus as the King of the Jews, would have recognized His mother as the Queen Mother. This is why we see the Mother of Jesus, shown in Revelation chapter 12 with a crown of stars and why the Angel Gabriel greets her with the royal salutation of Chaire or “Hail”. The same salutation by which Christ is greeted twice in the gospels.


What Protestants fail to see is that we are all co-mediators. ‘co’ means ‘with’. It does not mean equal. It does not even mean less. There is one mediator between God and man but we all COoperate with that plan of mediation. We bring Christ to the world, we bring the world to Christ. Nowhere is that more literally and profoundly true than with our blessed Mother. That is why Revelation 12:17 says that she is the mother of all the true believers. She is the Queen Mother and She is the Ark of the Covenant. Scriptures shows us this clearly in Revelation 11 and 12.

Mary is not Divine but She helps us understand God by Her unique relationship to the Holy trinity. Daughter of the Father, spouse of the Holy Spirit, Mother of the Son.

Here are some points that I think are likely to be raised during the course of this debate. The argument will be in BLUE with my Response in GOLD.

Argument: If Catholics do not worship Mary, why do they call her Theotokos- the Mother of God? Is this not putting her above God? 

Answer: Not at all. To call Mary the Mother of God is only to confirm what Scripture says about her.Elizabeth, in Luke 1 says what is it to me that the Mother of My Lord should come to me. ‘My Lord’ is translated from the Greek Kyrios which is equivalent to the Hebrew Adonai, a name used for God. To call Mary the Mother of God, is simply confirming the Biblical reality that is the Incarnation.
It is a simple logical syllogism. Jesus is God, Mary is His Mother, therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.

Argument: Catholics call Mary a co-redemtrix and co-mediatrix. The Bible clearly says that there is only one mediator between God and man. Are you not elevating Mary to the level of God?

Answer: You are comparing apples to oranges. A Redeemer and a co-redemptrix are two totally different things. Likewise, a co-mediatrix and a mediator between God and Man are not even close to the same thing.

The key word is ‘co’ which means ‘with’, not ‘equal’. In calling Mary a co-redemtrix and co-mediatrix, the Catholic church is simply affirming a fundamental reality- that Mary co-operated with the plan of redemption by bring Jesus to us.

Argument: Catholics claim that Mary has appeared all over the world. At Fatima, Catholics claim that Mary said: The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. Isn’t this elevating Mary to a level of Savior?

Answer: First of all, no Catholic is bound to believing in private revelations. However, Jesus did say that there would be signs by which many would believe and the documented miraculous events at places like Lourdes and Fatima are undeniable. At the heart of Mary’s statement- properly context-ed, is one of the most fundamental divisions between Catholics and Protestants, the notion of intercessory prayer. Yet, Mary never claims to be a Savior, she claims to be an Advocate. In the Rosary are the Apostles Creed and the Our Father as well as the Hail Mary. Mary’s entire message at Fatima is one of prayer, fasting and penance and returning to her Son. Mary is offering her assistance in leading souls to her son. Her messages at these events always point to Jesus. True, one may reject these events as inauthentic if they so chose but to call them worship is quite a stretch. 

Argument: Doesn’t the Bible warn against believing signs and wonders?
Revelation 13:  11: Then I saw another beast which rose out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.

12: It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its
 inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.
13: It works great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of men;

14: and by the signs which it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast, it deceives those who dwell on earth, bidding them make an image for the beast which was wounded by the sword and yet lived;

Answer: Signs and wonders are not at all what is being condemned here, unbelief and apostasy are what is being condemned.

Let’s take the quotes one by one. The quote in Matthew 16 did not mean Jesus didn’t perform any signs  in the Gospels, we know better than that. In fact, just 5 verses later, Jesus reminds the disciples of the miracle of the fish and loaves. Jesus did not condemn the signs themselves, he condemned the evil and adulterous pharisees who sought to put him to the test because of their lack of belief.

In 2 Corinthians, we are warned that Satan disguises himself as a being of light. There would be no need for him to do this if it were not for the fact that actual beings of light have appeared to people. 

It is the same with the proof text from Revelation 13 . When the anti-christ brings fire down from heaven, he is merely doing a cheap imitation of what Elijah did in 2 Kings.

It is nonsense to suggest that the Bible tells us to unilaterally reject all miracles. Both the Prophet Joel and Peter told us that in the last days young men would see visions and old men would dream dreams. The key is knowing how to discern.

1 John 4 
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from Godbecausemany false prophets have gone out into the world2 By this you know the Spirit of God : every spirit thatconfesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God ; 3 and every spirit that does not confessJesus is not from God ; this is the spirit of the antichrist
It may well be noted that every approved apparition of Mary passes this Biblical test.

  1. The Bible shows us the Angel Gabriel communicating with Daniel the Prophet, Zechariah and Mary. Another Angel spoke to Joseph. Moses and Elijah conversed with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration and Abraham spoke to the rich man in hell. Jesus says that God is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, the God of the living and not of the dead. Finally, in the book of Revelation, chapters 5 and 8, we see both Angels and Saints receiving our prayers and offering them to God. Despite all of this compelling evidence to the contrary, why do protestants continue to insist that the Angels and Saints cannot hear our prayers?
  2. Who are the 24 elders in Revelation chapter 4 and why are they wearing Robes and golden crowns and sitting on thrones?
  3. The Woman who appears in Revelation 11:19-12:17 is shown as the Ark of the Covenant, the Mother of Jesus, a woman in heaven with a physical body, a Queen wearing a crown, the Woman who is the enemy of the dragon (Genesis 3:15), the woman who fled to the desert, and the mother of all true Christians. How can you seriously argue that anyone but Mary can fulfill all these characteristics?
  4. Jehovah Witnesses, Jews and Muslims all recognize the historical person of Jesus Christ but refuse to acknowledge Him as God. If I asked you if any of these groups worship Jesus, you would say no. Yet, I do not recognize Mary as Divine and you accuse me of worshipping her. Why the double standard?
Protestants like to point out two passages relating to the Queen of Heaven in the book of Jeremiah and desperately try to superimpose them on 21st century Catholicism. Here is one, from Jeremiah 44:

15 Then all the men that knew that their wives sacrificed to other gods: and all the women of whom there stood by a great multitude, and all the people of them that dwelt in the land of Egypt in Phatures, answered Jeremias, saying:   16 As for the word which thou hast spoken to us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken to thee:  17 But we will certainly do every word that shall proceed out of our own mouth, to sacrifice to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings to her, as we and our fathers have done, our kings, and our princes in the cities of Juda, and in the streets of Jerusalem: and we were filled with bread, and it was well with us, and we saw no evil.  

18 But since we left off to offer sacrifice to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings to her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword, and by famine.  19 And if we offer sacrifice to the queen of heaven, and pour out drink offerings to her: did we make cakes to worship her, to pour out drink offerings to her, without our husbands?  

The assertion that Catholics worship Mary is completely baseless and without merit. Actually, it is the human Mary that Scripture calls blessed among all women, blessed among all generations, blessed because Jesus lived in her womb and nursed at her breast, blessed because She believed, blessed because She heard the word of God and obeyed. All of those accolades are right there in Luke’s Gospel.
Mary, whose soul magnifies the Lord, and whose spirit rejoices in God, Her Savior, is the penultimate example to all of us. She who is addressed by Gabriel with the salutation Kecharitomene- full of grace.
We Catholics find ourselves astounded when we are accused of uttering the prayer that is taken virtually verbatim from Luke 1 and 2.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Finally, we simply ask a favor of the Queen Mother.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death.
What kind of a goddess would we ask to pray for us? For protestants to accept the notion that God has all the Angels and Saints locked away in a broom closet betrays a staggering lack of faith. It also proves they don’t know scripture. Hebrews 12:1 talks about the great cloud of witnesses surrounding us. God commands us to pray with each other and for each other. That that extends past earth is clear and that makes our Awesome God just that much bigger, not smaller.
Often used as a gotcha claim that Catholics worship Mary, anti-catholics sometimes quote the catholic Encyclopedia using the British use of the word worship. Even when they do so, the full context proves them wrong. Also, isn’t it ironic that proponents of the King James Bible would try and impose the Saxon dialect on us?

The word worship (Saxon weorthscipe, “honour”; from worth, meaning “value”, “dignity”, “price”, and the termination, shipLatin cultus) in its most general sense is homage paid to aperson or a thing. In this sense we may speak of hero-worship, worship of the emperor, of demons, of the angels, even of relics, and especially of the Cross. This article will deal with Christian worship according to the following definition: homage paid to God, to Jesus Christ, to His saints, to the beings or even to the objects which have a special relation to God.
There are several degrees of this worship:
  • if it is addressed directly to God, it is superior, absolute, supreme worship, or worship of adoration, or, according to the consecrated theological term, a worship of latria. This sovereign worship is due to God alone; addressed to a creature it would become idolatry.
  • When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs, of angels, or of saints, it is a subordinate worship dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it honours the creatures of Godfor their peculiar relations with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship of dulia, a term denoting servitude, and implying, when used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of God, that their service to Him is their title to our veneration (cf. Chollet, loc. cit., col. 2407, and BouquillonTractatus de virtute religionis, I, Bruges, 1880, 22 sq.).
  • As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).


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*Best of DTB #164* The Sabbath Day debate show notes

Posted by John Benko - March 30th, 2012

These notes are in conjunction with this BlogTalkRadio show.


OPENING STATEMENT




The show notes for this program can be found at http://tinyurl.com/86qysfm. To ask a follow up question, send it to email@deepertruthblog.com
You ever wonder why we celebrate January 1st as the start of our calendar? The reason is that Jesus was born on December 25th and, under the law, a boy was circumcised on the Eighth day. Notice that the Eighth day mentioned here does not have to be a particular day. It is not named in Scripture as being, a particular day. Nevertheless, the Eighth day circumcision was the entrance into the Jewish community and that is why time is measured from January 1st.

The Eighth day signified new life just as surely as the 7th day signified God’s rest. In terms of the week, the Eighth day was the first day, a new beginning. It foreshadowed Sunday. To be specific, Resurrection Sunday, or what we call Easter.

That is why the early Apostles understood that Circumcision was no longer required. What it foreshadowed had been fulfilled.

The same is true of the Sabbath.

God said;

8Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works.
10But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.

11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things
that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the
seventh day, and sanctified it.
(Exodus Chapter 20)

7th day Sabbatarians will insist that the Sabbath always explicitly refers Biblically to Saturday. It does not. In Exodus 12:16, the Israelites are commanded to take a Sabbath (or day of rest) on the Seventh day. The Seventh day of the week? No. The Seventh day of the Passover. Well, the passover doesn’t always start on Sunday. In fact, it rarely does. It always starts on 14 Nisan. In 2012, the passover begins on Saturday, making the Seventh day, Friday.

The day of the week of the last day of creation is not named in Scripture. It is simply called The Seventh Day. What is pronounced is that you may work six days and then must rest the seventh. For this to be explicitly Biblically prescribed as a particular weekday day, we would have to know on which day God created the world and start the calendar then.

The word Sabbath is literally translated from Yom Shabbat meaning day of rest. The same Hebrew term is used in Exodus 12, concerning the Seventh day of the Passover and in Exodus 20, concerning the seventh day of the week.

Does this mean that Jews were not required to observe the Saturday Sabbath? By no means.

To understand is to get the relationship between how God’s Covenant law is enforced through the Mosaic law. It was God who demands a 1 day rest out of 7 but it was the Israelites who created the Calendar to implement it.

The Mosaic law was just as binding on a Jew as the moral law but that is not the case today. We are not under the Mosaic law today. The Mosaic law demanded specific Festivals (that is, Yearly commemorations), New Moon (that is, monthly) celebrations and Sabbath (or weekly) commemorations.

All of these, along with circumcision, and prohibitions against certain food and drink were elements of the Mosaic law and shadows of what is to come later. This is clearly shown in Scripture.


Colossians 2
8Beware lest any man cheat you by philosophy, and vain deceit; according to
the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according
to Christ:
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;
10And you are filled in him, who is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also you are circumcised with circumcision not made by hand, in despoiling of the body of the flesh, but in the circumcision of Christ:
12Buried with him in baptism, in whom also you are risen again by the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him up from the dead.

13And you, when you were dead in your sins, and the uncircumcision of your
flesh; he hath quickened together with him, forgiving you all offences:
14Blotting out the handwriting of the decree that was against us, which was contrary to us. And he hath taken the same out of the way, fastening it to the cross:
15And despoiling the principalities and powers, he hath exposed them confidently in open shew, triumphing over them in himself.
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths,
17Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.


The mistake my good friend George makes is the same mistake the the Pharisees made and the same mistake made by contemporary Judaism. They focus too much on carrying the Sabbath much further than God ever intended, without ever grasping it’s meaning or intent.

Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27). The Pharisees, on the other hand, tried to condemn a man for carrying a mat on the Sabbath after He was cured (John 5:8-11)

Jesus was constantly upbraiding the Pharisees for their ultra-legalistic interpretation of the Sabbath at the expense of mercy and the very communion with God the Sabbath was meant to illustrate in Christ’s death. The Pharisees focused on the letter of the law- “dont touch the grain”, “don’t carry your mat” and missed wholly the Spirit of the Law- set time aside for God, put Him first.


Here are some facts and that are not disputable;

  1. The Saturday Sabbath comes from Jewish Holy tradition-the chair of Moses-, not from direct Scripture. This, of course, makes it no less binding and truthful but only upon those under the Old Covenant.
  2. Jeremiah 31 foretells a New Covenant and, Jesus fulfills it in Matthew 26:28.
  3. The Chair of Moses was emphasized by Jesus (Matthew 23:1-3) but it was taken from them and given to another earthly authority. (Matthew 21:42-43)
  4. In the Book of Acts, we see that Church acting with that authority and speaking for the Holy Spirit in abolishing circumcision. (Acts 15:28)

That that authoritative church worshiped on Sunday is a matter quite beyond dispute.

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16: 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Further, that the Christian Church, from the very start, up to today, has always observed a Sunday worship cannot be denied (quotes in the show notes). The case that we are still obliged to a Saturday sabbath is wholly without Biblical or historical support.

Keep focused on that.

My opponent will doubtless play the worn-out pagan card alleging that we extrapolated Sunday worship from everything from roman gods to unicorns. He will have no evidence, of course but it will be fun to watch. Detractors of catholicism have lots of boogey men they like to conjure up whenever they are caught in a pickle but it won’t sway our listeners from the plain facts.

God did indeed rest on the 7th day….in the tomb. Death was not the final answer so the shadow was fulfilled.

John wrote his Book of Revelation from the Island of Patmos. He started by saying this;


9 I John, your brother and your partner in tribulation, and in the kingdom, and patience in Christ Jesus, was in the island, which is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus.
10 I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, (Revelation 1)

Saint Ignatius was a disciple of John and had this to say circa 100 AD;


“If, then, those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbath, but living according to the Lord’s day”

The case that the early church worshiped on Sunday is airtight.



Quotes: Source: catholic.com


The Didache
“But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).
The Letter of Barnabas
“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).
Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
“[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . .” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).
“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).
Tertullian
“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God” (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).
The Didascalia
“The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven” (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).
Origen
“Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection” (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).
Victorinus
“The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished” (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).
Eusebius of Caesarea
“They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things” (Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 312]).
“[T]he day of his [Christ’s] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord’s day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality” (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]).
Athanasius
“The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord’s day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord’s day as being the memorial of the new creation” (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3 [A.D. 345]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
“Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans or into Judaism, for Jesus Christ has henceforth ransomed you. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths and from calling any indifferent meats common or unclean” (Catechetical Lectures 4:37 [A.D. 350]).
Council of Laodicea
“Christians should not Judaize and should not be idle on the Sabbath, but should work on that day; they should, however, particularly reverence the Lord’s day and, if possible, not work on it, because they were Christians” (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]).
John Chrysostom
“[W]hen he [God] said, ‘You shall not kill’ . . . he did not add, ‘because murder is a wicked thing.’ The reason was that conscience had taught this beforehand, and he speaks thus, as to those who know and understand the point. Wherefore when he speaks to us of another commandment, not known to us by the dictate of conscience, he not only prohibits, but adds the reason. When, for instance, he gave commandment concerning the Sabbath— ‘On the seventh day you shall do no work’—he subjoined also the reason for this cessation. What was this? ‘Because on the seventh day God rested from all his works which he had begun to make’ [Ex. 20:10-11]. . . . For what purpose then, I ask, did he add a reason respecting the Sabbath, but did no such thing in regard to murder? Because this commandment was not one of the leading ones. It was not one of those which were accurately defined of our conscience, but a kind of partial and temporary one, and for this reason it was abolished afterward. But those which are necessary and uphold our life are the following: ‘You shall not kill. . . . You shall not commit adultery. . . . You shall not steal.’ On this account he adds no reason in this case, nor enters into any instruction on the matter, but is content with the bare prohibition” (Homilies on the Statutes 12:9 [A.D. 387]).
“You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul’s words, that the observance of the law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews?” (Homilies on Galatians 2:17 [A.D. 395]).
“The rite of circumcision was venerable in the Jews’ account, forasmuch as the law itself gave way thereto, and the Sabbath was less esteemed than circumcision. For that circumcision might be performed, the Sabbath was broken; but that the Sabbath might be kept, circumcision was never broken; and mark, I pray, the dispensation of God. This is found to be even more solemn than the Sabbath, as not being omitted at certain times. When then it is done away, much more is the Sabbath” (Homilies on Philippians 10 [A.D. 402]).
The Apostolic Constitutions
“And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent him to us, and condescended to let him suffer, and raised him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day . . . in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food” (Apostolic Constitutions 2:7:60 [A.D. 400]).
Augustine
“Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these ten commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian. . . . Which of these commandments would anyone say that the Christian ought not to keep? It is possible to contend that it is not the law which was written on those two tables that the apostle [Paul] describes as ‘the letter that kills’ [2 Cor. 3:6], but the law of circumcision and the other sacred rites which are now abolished” (The Spirit and the Letter 24 [A.D. 412]).
Pope Gregory I
“It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these [men] but preachers of Antichrist, who when he comes will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord’s day to be kept free from all work. For because he [the Antichrist] pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord’s day to be held in reverence; and because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, ‘You shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day’ [Jer. 17:24] could be held to as long as it was lawful for the law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, has appeared, the commandments of the law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For if anyone says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered. He must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the apostle Paul saying in opposition to him: ‘If you be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing’ [Gal. 5:2]” (Letters 13:1 [A.D. 597]).


Closing remarks

The show notes for this program can be found at http://tinyurl.com/86qysfm. To ask a follow up question, send it to email@deepertruthblog.com.
At the end of the day, 7th day sabbatarians are right about one point. It does come down to an issue of authority. The infant church either did have the authority to declare the Sabbath Day fulfilled and initiate the Lord’s Day in it’s place, or they didn’t. It is my position, the catholic position and, frankly, the position of the overwhelming majority of Sunday worship Christians, that they did.

This cannot help but be a touchstone onto the larger issue of Sola Scriptura, which we deal with in a future debate. Obviously, we cannot address it now.

Let me at least say this though. I believe George is a decent person. I really do. He was a police officer and people just don’t generally go into that type of field unless they have courage and integrity. Does George want to love and serve Jesus Christ? I have no doubt. However, he needs to study a lot more from grounded sources.

Hosea Chapter 4 says;

My people perish for want of knowledge! Since you have rejected knowledge, I will reject you from my priesthood; Since you have ignored the law of your God, I will also ignore your sons.

I’m trying to make a point here without drifting to far afield from the direct subject and risk getting busted down by the moderator but it is next to impossible to understand doctrines like the Sabbath unless you have a fundamental understanding of Covenant Theology. The Old Testament exists for a reason. We learn God’s Covenant plan through the Old Testament and we fulfill it in the New Testament.

One of the Old Testament’s lesson is the authority to bind and loose. Here are two examples;

Matthew 23: 1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works. do ye not; for they say, and do not.

Matthew 19:

3 Some Pharisees approached him, and tested him, 4 saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause whatever?”
4 He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
7 They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss (her)?”
8 He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

It takes work to understand this. God gave the Old Testament Church the authority to makes many decisions on His behalf. Clearly, He gave the New testament church this same authority.

In Matthew 16 and 18, Jesus says the Church is the final authority to rule on matters of sin and to bind and loose. In Luke 10:16, He gave that church the power to speak for Him, saying “He who hears you, hears Me. He who rejects you, rejects me. He who rejects me rejects Him who sent me”. The church has spoken. Sunday is our day of worship.

Thank You.


George’s opening statement

Opening Statement: The Sabbath Day, March 30, 2012
by George Lujack

The Sabbath commandment is one of the most misunderstood commandments of Scripture. Before getting into what day the weekly Sabbath should be observed on, I’d like to first define how the Sabbath should be observed.

1. It is a day of rest from weekly labor. No work should be done on this day. That said, it is not a sin to do essential services such as medical care, and emergency response work, nor is it wrong to come to the aid of a stranger. Christ taught that it is not wrong to do good deeds on the Sabbath.

2. It is a day to not buy and sell or trade in whatever manner in the marketplace, for entertainment or for whatever purpose. Purchases for food and essentials should be made in advance, before the Sabbath – in preparation for the Sabbath, so that they are available when the Sabbath arrives.

3. It is a day of reverence to God. It is a day to honor God and not do our own pleasure (Isaiah 58:13).

Beginning Friday at sundown through Saturday at sundown is the seventh day Sabbath, according to how God counted days during the creation week. The purpose of the Sabbath is for a time set aside for physical rest and spiritual refreshment, a time to ponder and give thanks for the wonder of God’s creation.

God did not give man the option to observe the Sabbath as a mater of his own choosing. Church fellowship and attendance is by no means not the solitary way of keeping the Sabbath, but revering and choosing Sunday over Saturday as a special day to honor God is not in accordance with keeping the Sabbath.

A person cannot observe the Sabbath every day of the week, as some say they do, in denying God’s seventh-day Sabbath. That would mean that they never purchase or sell anything nor do any work and revere God ceaselessly. This would not be practical and God does not want us to observe the Sabbath in such a manner as we choose.

Jesus and the disciples were often accused of breaking the Sabbath. In Luke chapter 6, the Pharisees accused Jesus’ disciples of plucking grains and eating them on the Sabbath, considering this “work.” It is not unlawful to eat on the Sabbath. The disciples were hungry and were eating as they passed through a grain field. The law also states that it is unlawful to muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain (Deuteronomy 25:4; 1 Corinthians 9:9; 1 Timothy 5:18). What the Pharisees were doing was treating Jesus’ disciples worse that field oxen.

Now if the disciples had been in the field gathering grain for a weekly harvest, the Pharisees would have been correct in accusing them of breaking the Sabbath, as this would constitute labor. A man was once put to death under the law for gathering sticks on the Sabbath day (Numbers 16:32).

Observant Sabbath keeping Jews, I would say, err in some ways in which they keep the Sabbath. Following in their own traditions of man, many modern day Sabbath observing Jews do such things as not using electricity on the Sabbath, taking their phones off the receivers – so they cannot receive calls, and placing tape on the light switch on inside of their refrigerator – so that when they open their refrigerator door, the interior light will not go on. Yet they leave their refrigerators plugged in so that the food contained inside will not spoil.

This is going too far in Sabbath observation, because Jesus said that the Sabbath was made to serve man, not man to serve the Sabbath (Mark 2:27). The sun keeps shining on the Sabbath. The earth does not stop spinning on the Sabbath. Observant Jew’s non-use of electricity, telephone, internet, and motor vehicle transport on the Sabbath are doctrine of men observances of the Sabbath, not commands of God in honoring the Sabbath. What would be considered harder “work” or labor, a Jewish family walking 2-miles to a synagogue and returning on foot on the Sabbath, or that same Jewish family traveling by automobile to their synagogue and returning by their car? I would say that if the family traveled with their car, they would be resting more than if they traveled by foot, therefore “resting” according to the Sabbath.

The seventh day Sabbath was instituted by God after creation.

GENESIS 2:1-3:
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them. were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

God included the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments with guidelines of how to observe the day that He sanctified…

EXODUS 20:6-11:
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

EXODUS 31:12-18:
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”
And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

The seventh day Sabbath is a perpetual covenant and everlasting sign according to Exodus 31:16-17 officially written with the finger of God according to Exodus 31:18!

History reveals that it was decades after the death of the apostles that a politico-religious system, Catholicism supported by Rome, repudiated the Sabbath of Scripture and substituted the observance of the first day of the week in its place.

The Catholic Church altered the actual Sabbath commandment issued from God – written with God’s own finger and recorded in Exodus 20:6, which states, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” Catholicism reworded God’s commandment to state, “Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.” Then they renamed the Sabbath day to Sunday!

By their own admission, the Catholic Church, without any indication from Scripture, changed the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday.

The Catholic Church claims a few reasons why they intended to change the Saturday Sabbath to Sunday….

1. They believe Christ rose on Sunday, and this somehow gives them license to change the perpetual Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday.

2. They believe that the change was part of their “divine mission,” an act of their ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.

The Catholic Church does not acknowledge other more sinister reasons reasons why they intended to change the Saturday Sabbath to …

1. Sunday worship is the traditional pagan day of worship.

2. The Catholic Church wanted to differentiate themselves from the Jews; refusing to worship on the same day the Jews did.

God ordained baptism to honor the resurrection, not the Sunday Sabbath according to Romans 6:3-5.

The Catholic Church in statements through the centuries, freely admit that they are responsible, without any direction from Scripture, for intending to change God’s Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday.

Catholic spokespersons, in their own words:

“The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.” The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

“But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” – James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

“The Catholic Church took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday…And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder (a pagan god) became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Christ.” – Catholic World, March, 1894.”

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Catholic Church’s sense of its own power. – Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995.

“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” – Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

“The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says, No! By my divine power I abolished the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church!” – Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, MO as taken from the History of the Sabbath, p.802.

Well, this is one Christian who will not bow, nor obey the commands of the Catholic Church, but will obey the perpetual command of God, to remember the seventh day as the Sabbath day.


Closing Statement by George Lujack


March 30, 2012

In closing, I would just like to state the obvious about the attempt to change God’s perpetual commands, including but not limited to the weekly Sabbath day.

DANIEL 7:25:
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, shall persecute the saints of the Most High, and shall intend to change times and law.

The office holder known as the Catholic Pope (all of them) has fulfilled this prophecy. All Catholic popes have either INTENDED to change God’s laws or have upheld the intended changes of Catholic popes that came before them.

Notice how Scripture says, “He … shall INTEND to change times and law.”

The Catholic pope CANNOT change God’s times and laws, though that is his intention. God’s times and laws REMAIN as God originally commanded them.

Therefore the seventh day Saturday Sabbath remains, no matter how many churches and people wish to observe Sunday instead.

MALACHI 3:6:
For I am the Lord, I do not change…

HEBREWS 13:8:
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

PSALM 111:7-8:
The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness.

ISAIAH 24:5:
The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

The seventh day Saturday Sabbath is a perpetual unchangeable command, written with the finger of God (Exodus 31:12-18).

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